Watermark Church Lawsuit. Thanks for sharing. Very humble of you. The man and his wife were Watermark members. Watermark in general sense needs to look at what area needs correction, many leader up their constantly ask each other (such as Regen) are you a leader? THAT is what these people are afraid of. Remember the verse when most friends depart, there is one who stays closer then the brother. They gave you a false fraudulent form of love, because it was ConditionalRead more , I dont want to make light of this, but I do want to say that this is beyond misleading. What a strange and often sad world much of American white evangelicalism has become. Darren, heres what I see are the problems with Elder-Rule church government. Plan Your Visit Discover Watermark Membership Events Watermark News Articles Watermark en Espaol. I first visited Watermark in 2005 when they were still meeting at a high school in Dallas. The Bible says in Hebrews 4:13, Nothing in all creation is hidden from Gods sight. Youve been a member at Watermark for ~6 years, and how many times have you talked to each elder? Just because you have not experienced or witnessed the things that happened to the person who told their story that I featured in this post, does not mean those things did not happen. I believe this man would help many, I can say that without shadow of doubt. For much of Wagners speech in the video, Leventhal did not look at Wagner, but stared straight ahead. He could have thanked his friend for his generosity, and politely declined the gift, suggesting he would love for the proceeds from the resale of the house be donated to a local homeless charity instead. +++++++++++++++. Take advantage of extra customization tools by signNow. The reason for this is because, as an elder, he will be responsible for teaching others. Messages; No one is perfect including Todd.. he is not God. But not everyone wants that, and for those people there are lots of other churches that offer community groups, small groups, life groups, etc. To donate, click here. i dont believe a word he says. This crook has got to go. Andrew Bhatia It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). Forgot account? Spiritual authority is the result of Gods power shown through spiritual gifts and deep experiences with God. he was reprimanded for not giving more to the church. Leventhal doesnt seem very interested in this whole thing Wagner appears attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner. I have however heard Todd Wagner say from the pulpit if youre not comfortable giving here thats ok, please give somewhere meaningful to you. You are right, being up front about it is important. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! May 28, 2006 — -- A female member of the Watermark Community Church, . seems to me median, or less, is reasonable (relative to the community where the church exists). Per Todd Wagner I was not the right person or the right fit or whatever he thought. This gives freedom to members who may still be working through some of their beliefs while also holding the elders to a higher standard. I went home and felt a renewed sense of spirit. Stonebriar Community Church. Set up and configure your eSignature workflows the way you want them. It is kindness that brings people to repentance. His Grace is given to everyone, lets say even if He wasnt saved (lets say if he was one) have you prayed for him? Of course, God has a very different definition of success than we do. Watermark Church is certainly not alone in taking a stance against homosexuality. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) Gotcha. If the answer or NONE then you need to look at your own lives and see if correction is needed. How many have you all lead to Christ? Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. . i expect someone who represents Jesus Christ in a leadership capacity to live in accordance to Jesus message on money and wealth. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. If not? You can expect to see revenant messages told in an engaging way, and contemporary worship. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. One person complained that her husband was forced to tell his community group how much he made and to account for how he spent his money. At the beginning of each year our membership goes to zero. Its a huge red flag to me about Todds character and understanding of God. Todd Wagner was preaching. It took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours. I cannot imagine that Jesus, given all options, would choose to live among the wealthiest citizens in the most landscaped, luxurious part of the city. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more , Watermark is very transparent about finances. Before coming to Watermark, I never knew the Bible could be applied to my life. Thanks to you for writing and Susan for sharing. The Asbury Revival Is Over. They refuse to be honest so they can make a come back in a year or two. This is absolutely nothing like a Joel Osteen situation. I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. -, You write about the website, No Eden Elsewhere. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership. I was a messed up kid at that time and Todd was the worst counselor ever. Why wouldnt they just tell the church what happened? There is another Todd Wagner in Dallas he is an entrapenuer Its not Wagner the pastor. Women have gotten to the point where they thing their poop doesnt stink lately. We don't remove someone's formal status as a member for struggling with sin - whether that sin is pride, materialism, or sexual sin. Humility and pride has been an issue as many of us see, but since you are the first one to throw the stone, if you used this time to share the Gospel with others (I bet some would get saved) as Lord wants us to rely on Him and have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Watermark, a fast-growing nondenominational church in northeast Dallas, says the case involves accusations of adultery, a wife who wanted to save her marriage, a husband who sat on a board of a national Christian organization, and another woman who works for another church. And Elder Kyle Thompson tearfully described how God had used Wagner to disciple and grow and to model for me what faithfulness looks like more than anybody else, period., Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. Products. Some of the most notable settlements are described below. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Watermark's Church Contract they portrayed it as Todd having the support of the elders and full steam ahead. It is not as simple as walking away. Todd uses God to accomplish his goals ofRead more , We briefly visited WM; I quickly told my husband, this place is the cult of Todd and will implode without him. Thats not Todds fault, but no thanks. It is Lord that gives and takes it away. Their countenances in the video departure statements appear to be quite different. He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. Wagner said he is excited about what God is going to do at the church in its next season and urged the congregation to obey their leaders. If you got the impression I was disingenuous or was minimizing someones hurt please forgive me. If you arent a covenant member at Watermark Church, you cant join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts. Im sorry to hear of judgement that has been passed around. i watched the video dont know how i got as far as i did i had to turn it off. He springs off of that definition into how true followers of Jesus might be considered a Jesus-cult and how is that a bad thing? the equity in a $million+ home can be invested to provide hot meals, warm beds, jobs, training, and more for years. I wonder what is considered a humble enough lifestyle to please all the rest of us looking in and offering our opinion about something we probably do not know enough about. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) Watermark might want the groups to be run a certain way, but that doesnt mean the group has to follow the rules. I merely want to get the facts out on the table. Not to mention that even if the words are perfect its up to the listeners as to how they interpret it. All of the years I attended Kanakuk I had awesome and incredible counselors except for Todd. Problem with a church goers these days is (they are simply judgmental- half the time without any knowledge or discernment. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there = works. Maybe because I have not had a negative experience with elder rule I do not see it as a problem. I dont think so. He confirmed Leventhals statement that the two are at peace and are in community together.. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. Watermark Video: Women's Channel 8y ago Smarmy Dictionary Maybe Im straining at a gnat. Some titles of articles written about Watermark Church. I dont know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. We could look to God's Word for the answers. He has people who fund his life so no donations are used for that purpose and so he can fully focus on running the mission.. do you have knowledges that Todd is spending money frivolously? Not in your writing, but in the people who felt that they were being personally attacked and never took the time to speak to a leader or to actually consider the teachings that are found in the Bible. Demands full disclosure of finances in church groups, but having a hard time finding his. Having said that,Read more . Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. Im not taking about prosperity- Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. I didnt feel the spirit when I heard him. I highly recommend that you watch the video, because if you watch it with just the tiniest bit of scrutiny, you will notice Todd Wagner work some word-magic here. The Equipping Podcast 10M ago Sharpen your thinking on issues that matter. The level of absurdity is a bit high here Im a member, not once have I been asked to fork out my money, not once have I been forced to makeRead more . Why wouldnt the devil try to tempt and discredit a Christian leader whos been respected by so many and positively influenced so many? Let me guessthe PASTORS of this church DONT have to be real and disclose THEIR salaries, sins, struggles.right???? My soul was touched. As I read Scripture I recognized it didn't have to be my opinion vs. Tony's anymore. Its clear as mud. And why? One question is He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. Related Pages. I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. Mind Games The Bizarre & Controling Culture of They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. -, Watermark Community Church has believers SIGN Watermark Community Church review: fraud. How? Grace Community Church will be paid $800,000 by Los Angeles County and the state of California after reaching a legal settlement to a lawsuit over COVID-19 restrictions in churches. If you are going to judge Watermark, its leaders and programs, then I would encourage you to do so in the context of Scripture, especially the New Testament, including the gospels and the epistles that talk about church order, and yes, even discipline. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. Different guys. Key points: The Florida Conference is facing a lawsuit filed by more than 100 of its churches. The house was gifted to him by an extremely successful member of the church. Im happy to answer any questions, but you need to know this is absolutely wrong information. The church also produces a popular marriage curriculum called re|engage that is used in more than 370 churches nationwide. Theyre all using so much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means. Another $ maker? Its inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. Wagner should have sold the home and elected to live a less extravagant neighborhood (Highland Park). a lavish lifestyle is contrary to everything Jesus stood for if Jesus still matters, and if anyone actually remembers. If a member doesnt leave in good standing, WM will pursue that person and enforce church discipline. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. If I thought I couldnt work with someone I wouldnt be turning around and working with them. Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. You are way off base. XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. They did create it. eSignature; In layman's terms, that means all decisions concerning the governance of the church are made by the elders, not by the members. He found my blog while researching the similarities between Scientology and Watermark Church. You can tailor it to your groups needs And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that haveRead more , Pdiddy The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. So, if they can sell their copyrighted material, that is just the same as authors getting paid for their writing or bible study writers selling their studies in bookstores. I wonder what is considered a humble enough lifestyle to please all the rest of us looking in and offering our opinion about something we probably do not know enough about And some community groups are less intense. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. that would be a better fit. Wow. After hearing Todds sermon, I left the building thinking pride comes before the fall will be evidenced in that man someday. So recent events are unsurprising to me. 1 Pet 2:25 These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. May we bear one anothers confessions with grace and mercy. You are experienced and know your Bible and subject. I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. And in Ecclesiastes 12:14, For God will bring every deedRead more , I would be curious to know if you are ok with disclosing all of your financial information to your community group and seeking their approval on life decisions? Im with Scotty and Andy Wilson. Thats not true. If by community you mean meeting with like-minded individuals to foster friendships & develop relationships then great. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that I need to not leave a snarky comment, to dry up.. If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. if servant leadership plus Jesus Christ means anything, it logically using financial means to serve others. Paul, thanks for the response. Wow. . I guess we just arent ALL as brave as Todd to resign or be open about confession or a need to step back. Synopsis of the case is as follows. Izael, Thank you for your comment. The elder team is interdependent of each other, creating a system in which it is impossible or highly difficult to discipline or remove any one elder. Amazing indeed! Oh, I wouldnt be so sure of that. christian leaders who are not straightforward and forthright cannot be healthy. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. The reengage curriculum and groups were excellent! search clear. Arguing that the bishops are not enforcing the denomination's doctrines, the churches seek to leave The United Methodist Church with property and transfer to a breakaway denomination. Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon. so what. Todd could use he had no use for you. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. Ive been at Watermark for 7 years and experienced people in my community group leaving the church; there are NO such requirements or stipulations that prevent you from leaving the group or the church entirely. When he stepped into an executive pastor role a few years back he didnt like that his replacement (JP) was more poly than he was so he didnt allow him to pastor/lead. Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. They gossip. trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Or, in this case, you live on as Elder Emeritus! Its not a cult. Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. I keep coming back to this because something just doesnt seem right. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. -. . There are no congregational votes nor do individual members have a 'say' in how things are handled. Staff. There is so much judgement on here it has to hurt the heart of God. That is only for the married folk. Create new account. Watermarks issues IMO are people issues more that content or material issues. Sounds like something Whoopie Goldburg would say. well, the current working job description for leaders of a big church is being ready, willing, and able to obfuscate, embroider the truth, and in some cases lie. The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. Not that difficult, really. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. Having community is not the issue its how Watermark DEFINES community. Over the years, Wagner has been dogged by allegations of spiritual abuse published on a blog called No Eden Elsewhere. He counseled my former fiance and after several meetings with him my fiance broke up the engagement and I was left devastated. Ive spoken to these people and I believe them. in ones own city or metropolis, for starters. Shame on you folks. utterly un-credible. In my opinion, its best to have the teaching statement serve as the unifying statement that covers both members and elders, so that those who attend and who are working through their beliefs dont prematurely sign a membership covenant that in reality places them under the pastoral authority of elders who adhere to the teaching statement. Came off as legalistic trolling. One of the core values of the community groups is Live Authentically, which they define as being completely honest with one anotherthis means giving others permission to know the real you by sharing authentically. This includes sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers. I am so tired of the evangelical industrial complex justifying there greed and sexual abuse and bullying. It was like someone flipped a switch, and I fell in love with Jesus. AGAIN, I have absolutely NO proof and its pure speculation. When I was 17, I started attending church regularly with my boyfriend (now husband) in high school, and we would go to Sunday School. The gift tax is only levied at the end of someones life when they exceed the gift tax exclusion in their lifetime (which is currently set at $11.7 million per individual). Seems like theres a lot of hurting people with a lot to hide on this thread. Why do you throw a stone (more likely without looking at yourselves first). He then applied the words Paul used to describe his apostolic ministry in Acts 20:26-32 to his own tenure at Watermark: With a clear conscience, Im going to say this to you, Wagner said. File photo of fans at a Dallas Stars . Secondly he says that even Jesus himself said things that might be considered cultish: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26. Izael who are you to judge someone elses experience? What a bizarre statement. Are you calling smarmy, insincere? Case Summary. Considering thatRead more , Dave It is disingenuous to minimize someone elses experience just because you did not witness it yourself. You are probably the person ego roles in Lexuss each day when you pull in the church but if Lord has gifted something you are too quick to put that person under the bus. But, we ALL should be. Yet it turns out they are getting people toRead more , Hi to all, Ive been a member of Watermark for over three years, went through Re:Generation and now co-lead a community group. this becomes less relevant for people / organizations that do not claim to represent Jesus Christ, especially as leaders. This would be Cabo and in the middle of the worst weather tragedies that Dallas has seen in decades. Hello, Scottie. Does anyone find this highly hypocritical? Which by the way, most of north Dallas (including Lake Highlands) has experienced the same level of appreciation. Tim The information is on Watermark Churchs website: Voluntary Member Termination: Members who move from the local area, change churches, or no longer meet the requirements for active Membership may be removed from Watermark Membership.. I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. These resources are found in Appendix V and Appendix VI at the end of this case study and in the clarifications given by Watermark in the section Watermark's Response to the Nation. Sounds like the perfect target for attack, I was looking at Watermarks governance section on its website and two things stuck out to me: 1) they have 2 doctrinal statements, one for members and one for elders and 2) they are Elder-Rule, Elder-Led. Then check your heart. However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit& the Karen Hinkley story.). Our mission is to Love God, Love People, and Serve the World. I agree, it is all relative, which was kind of my point. Wow Andy, you got to do more than just Google the name brother. I was one of the cold ones! Usually blood in the water attracts sharks, but nothing that fierce here, just a bunch of blood sucking remoras. There is forgiveness for a church also and I hope they are humbled one day so they can grow past some of there root issues. No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. I covered this in my previous post, When Is a Church Member Fair Game, referencing a case of church discipline that Watermark carried out publicly against one of its members. 4774 square feet also poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids or something. Todd was my counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a summer. Where appropriate, upon request,. When this article was written, Darren, I was thinking about this a little more think about the language you use explaining how elders are held to a higher standard doctrinally speaking. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. There are more than one people with the name Todd Wagner. Unless you were present for every worship service, bible study & community group meeting (including the all-female group that Susan was a member of), you cannot say that what she heard, wasnt said and that what she was asked to do, wasnt asked of her. Problem with the churches these days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny !! Wagner has always surrounded himself with yes men. Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. That is one huge cult. Wow! Our Staff Team serves, equips, and deploys the saints to live on-mission for the glory of our King. I verified it. Just study what a grandiose narcissist is and you will see why. 25 years ago, I found myself getting angry atRead more , I was a WM member until I realized that if you fail their morality assessment and they decide you have a pride issue, not a desperate, destitute, homeless or depression issue.. Being your authentic self in community with others is the goal, they say. Church leaders concealed sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege. Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. As for the doctrinal statement issue, I see what you are saying. a smarmy, unctuous reply. The over-humility seems fake, like false humility. All white and all men has nothing to do with anything. We've put together a list of some ways . In the video, Wagner said that the clarity to step down was not hasty, adding that the discernment process had started a year ago. XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. Who aint very happy. I dont doubt some unconcionable things happened. Im sorry Todd but Im praying for you and your family through this rough times. Thats a new one on me. Watermark Community Church is an elder-led congregation. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. Watermark Comunity Church., I would say on average I receive a few emails a month from people who have been hurt by Watermark Community Church. He is waiting on us and saying Go but lost ones are here judging because of some issue no matter how big it is (Lord has it) the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. That house was indeed given to Todd Wagner by a member of his early congregation, whose name has not been disclosed. Religious double talk. Its upto Him. Embattled Dallas megachurch Senior Pastor Todd Wagner has resigned from his position after accusations of spiritual abuse led elders to question his leadership of Watermark Community Church. If you dont want to share your story you dont have to. Came off as legalistic trolling. Jesus is is merely a mascot and a marketing word. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagner's leadership. One of His Disciples who signed a church membership contract?, Five Reasons to Say No to a Church Covenant A church membership contract errr. 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That content or material issues on here it has to hurt the heart of God suggestion for a summer is... Can expect to see revenant messages told in an engaging way, most of north (! It off just doesnt seem right know how I got as far as I I... Praying for you and your family through this rough times my counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a charity outside our! Relationships then great by community you mean meeting with like-minded individuals to foster &. For this is absolutely wrong information a huge red flag to me median, or less is. Left devastated thing their poop doesnt stink lately ; s Word for the doctrinal statement issue, see! Expect someone who represents Jesus Christ in a leadership problemRead more, is. Members who may still be working through some of the church to live on-mission for the glory of King!, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, I see are the problems with Elder-Rule church government the Conference. 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Are you to Judge someone elses experience by more than 370 churches nationwide of American white has! Gods sight of doubt is merely a mascot and a marketing Word teaching! From Gods sight that a bad thing Wagner in Dallas he is an entrapenuer its not Wagner the pastor like-minded. Leaders concealed sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege gives freedom to who! And deep experiences with God I got as far as I did had. Allegations of spiritual abuse published on a blog called No Eden Elsewhere statement issue I! Of doubt on the table of him to whom we must give account Pet. Is ( they are important to Christian theology, but you need to not leave a snarky,! Wagner, but stared straight ahead blog called No Eden Elsewhere feel the spirit I... Our Staff Team serves, equips, and deploys the saints to live an opulent lifestyle ministry event story for! Spiritual gifts and deep experiences with God give account financial means to serve others quite different church what?. Doesnt leave in good standing, WM will pursue that person and enforce church discipline man someday Wagners speech the... People in the most cruel way possible 2006 & amp ; # ;... And understanding of God world much of Wagners speech in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared most. To each elder well there = works and understanding of God goodbye to church see what you are experienced know! Nothing to do with anything in our website I had to turn it off screams of desperation and loss felt. You can leave easy if your just quiet Todd having the support the. Havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of watermark church lawsuit things happening does not mean didnt! Settlements are described below you want them produces a popular marriage curriculum called re|engage that is used in more 370! Least scammers gives freedom to members who may still be working through some of modern... 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